Curse

Tazzo · May 17, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I thought i would put my 2 cents in also.

I dont think mesmers really have an issue getting into teams ,but if a team aint accepting one in a well balance team the mesmers better off waiting for a non 1337 team.I will be building one soon when they allow me to buy more slots as currently have no more spaces spare.

As for the ritulist at the moment they arent suffering and as said above they have been a good class to add and balance between dmg and good proting too.(Yes i have one)

I see one class that does have trouble getting into groups is the assassin for a number of reasons.

(1)Most (not all) want to tank when the class was never ment for tanking.

(2)FAR TO MANY players made one when factions launched and there last one the list for pulling into teams.So you will see assassins left behind for a long time to come.

(3)FAR TO MANY PEOPLE MADE ONE!!!

The class may be good and yes i will be making one at some point when not so many running round the early missions.

Hungryarmadillo · May 17, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Assasins are pretty good. Those who came from the whammoh side of things will probably think he's a tank and suck with him, but the truly good ones.. well you see a lot of them in PvP

This is exactly why ppl have distaste for assasins.Too many assasins think they are tanks.Every mission i have done, there is always one assasin who thinks hes a tank. They die like 30 times. lol. monks and other players just have to keep rezing them, you are loseing a valuable teammate to dp, most parties take only one assasin, and will choose a caster or warrior over another assasin.

That said i have ran across other ppl with other professions that try to tank too, I have seen mesmers trying to tank, and rangers trying to tank, in some cases, its ok, but when you have a team relying on your success, tanking with non tank clases really shorts the whole team. In some cases I have seen it done and done well, I have seen Monk/warriors right up front takeing baddies out with no problem. I have even seen a Mo/W tanking in aspenwood and takeing out tanks lol. The kurzick side actually formed a special team to nutralize him because he was wreaking so much havoc.

Just realize that warriors have armor that is around 90-100, while most other classes are at 60-70, plus the added armors like doylack and defey pain, or sheilds up, make a lot of difference. Assasins are frontline attackers, but, to mee seem more efective for taking out rangers and casters who are faster type enemies.Or get them behind some minions or tanks.

Telein, do your max damage, teleout, repeat. dont go toe to toe with gaurdians, or constructs, lol most of the time, without a good merciful monk who wants the team to succeed nomater how poorly and individual is doing, you would be lying dead on the ground, with the exception of the few who actually know how to play their class.

But lets just face it, I think thats where the real discrimination comes from. Those who play but are poor at the class they play. Maybe its just that a majority of assasins dont yet fully know how to play the class, and I know that goes for mesmers, both classes deal so much damage i think they feel they can tank.

I will say though at times as a warrior i have been prof discriminated against too. In the Toombs and in the Deep. Not a bp ranger you cant come, sorry. blah blah, only this certain build will work for this mission, if you arent a stance tank you cant do this, if you dont trap you cant do this. This comes in my opinion from ppl who only know one class, they dont understand that if a player knows his class, yes build matters some, but a player knowing how to play his class can be so much more valuable than some stupid pre determined build.

The old Orzo farm in SF was "looking for STANCE tank only" but I got into a group useing my all around build, I use it everywehre except pvp, Thats troll,Doylak,defy pain,for great justice, sever,gash,galrath, and used to be savage strike. I went on the orzo farm, we completed the whole thing with no trouble. So before you go discriminateing on ofther profs, remember its the player, not the prof.

My most successfull runs on any mission or any place includeing fow and Uw, were of mismatched teams , with no specific builds, made of nothing but players who knew the game, and exactly how to play and be effective with thier professionb, if you truely beleive otherwise, then you are missing out on alot,and I am guess , probably only really know , one class, the one you play. Every class has inturpts degens, ect. some better some worse.

Once assasins actually start to go through and learn their talents they will be much better. I do however blame the game designers , in tyria we have the desert, and that teaches many how to properly play their class bydesign. This however is unfortunatly missing from Cantha for Ritualists and assasins. I think they really needs to add a couple missions for assasin and Rits that are specific to them and requires them to actually use their class in specific ways to get through them. Right now, its left completly to trial and error. But, Thats just my take on it. I am sure many others may disagree.

nohooiam · May 17, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

i dont see a general use for assassins in pve, and this may be why they are overlooked when forming a pug.

the basic team formation include a tank, damage dealers, and defensive characters. the problem with the assassin is that they don't excel in any field. aoe damage is king in pve, which unfortunately the assassin lacks.

i think assassins will take a niche role similiar to the mesmer where they excel certain situations.

afkkiller · May 18, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

Incorrect.

I play a melee Ranger, and, much like the Assassin, when this is played correctly it doesn't "mess up aggro" and only idiots die in the first volley. I'm also starting to play an Assassin, and I'm learning to use the tools that they have available. I'd like to see a Warrior TRY to deal the kind of sudden spike damage a well equiped Assassin is capable of. Oh, and after I'm done blasting one target, I just kill Recall and now I'm next to the monk, waiting for my next target of opportunity.

And, for cripes sake, the game's only been out for a month! Give it some time already, almost no one knows how to play an Assassin yet (myself included).

As for class descrimination, it'll always be there. Smart players look for the best fit for a role or how to best use what is available, bad players are second class blind.

Melee ranger's get owned by the ever present Sliver Armor skill used
along with all those other aoes, the reason I prefer rangers to assassins for
killing those things is that they can stand back and not get hit by AOES and
other random crap while still doing damage.

Warriors can adrenal spike with eviserate and do plenty of damage.

And again I'd rather take a class that can constantly be doing something instead
of a class that runs up attacks one thing, ports back, then waits. Why take
that when you can take mesmers, rangers, eles, ritualists etc, that can all
do constant damage from a range.

Sanji · May 18, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

No just anal retentive to the point of ridiculousness.

No, being anal retentive is being overly worried about small details.

Hitting the Enter key every once in a while in an effort to make your big, messy gobs of type more legible is far past obessessing over details, it's just a common courtesy to other posters.

Dave83 · May 18, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

As in like racist,but instead against different professions. Currently we're seeing this sort of thing with Mesmers and Assassins because supposedly they aren't good. Which may be true,but anyway as the game progresses will there be more and more professions neglected from groups?

I'm not quite sure on Ritualists ability to get in groups,but I know Necros,Warriors,Monks,Rangers,and Elementalists have barely any trouble joining groups.

No profession is bad as such, the player makes his character good or bad. I really believe the whole Mesmer-ism (mesmer hate) thing is over generally. People start to see that they are really very good in the right hands and with not a great deal of them being around compared to other chars they may even be seen as kewl after a while.

Assasins are dieng all the time now because players are going in thinking they are wars; their builds are all offence and no evades or armor buffs, teleports or heals etc. They they are relying on monks too much and dont understand they cant tank like a warrior or that they should be ducking in and out of close range.

Sagius Truthbarron · May 18, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by afkkiller

There aren't enough good Assassins that use teleporting skills to make picking up a random Assassin worth the risk since they aren't even needed.

Teleport skills don't make you good. I don't use any in PvE most of the time, there are other ways not to become a target.

I've seen an Assassin running around with Aura of Displacement, Death Charge, that one that teleports you back to an ally, and Shadow Refuge. You know what happend? He would teleport in, get one hit off and die.

I think the Assassin requires understanding of aggro, not just being able to hop around.

But, yes, I think "professionists" will just get worse and worse. Its only becuase people are so ignorant. They don't take classes becuase they don't know what they do or how to use them. In their minds, "a warrior tanks, a monk heals, an ele blows stuff up, a necro does stuff with dead bodies and uses BiP on me! Everyone else can screw off, becuase this combo is teh bomb."

Quote:

Originally Posted by str0b0

No just anal retentive to the point of ridiculousness.

If you expect people to read it, you should make it legible at least. Its very hard to keep track of where you are on a giant wall of text; that’s one reason why those who speak the English language on the Internet use their spacebars and enter buttons properly.

Mr_eX · May 18, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

It's not that people hate the classes, it's just a question of rounding-out your party. In Factions I've seen a lot of "NO MORE ASSASSINS" in group advertisements, and I've checked these groups out and seen that usually they already have one or two assassins in the party. It's not that the party leader hates Assassins, it's just that they need monks and offensive casters instead of a third Assassin.

I disagree with OP's point about Mesmers though. Not aren't a lot of PvE Mesmers, but my Mesmer has no hard time finding a group, because the usual reaction is "OMG a Mesmer!"

I don't even need to mention their versitility in PvP.

afkkiller · May 18, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Teleport skills don't make you good. I don't use any in PvE most of the time, there are other ways not to become a target.

I've seen an Assassin running around with Aura of Displacement, Death Charge, that one that teleports you back to an ally, and Shadow Refuge. You know what happend? He would teleport in, get one hit off and die.

I think the Assassin requires understanding of aggro, not just being able to hop around.

Teleporting skills are just an example of how usually not to die. It takes someone
very special in the head to die consistantly with all the porting skills available.

But that isn't my main gripe with assassins. My main one is that there seems
to be no reason to take them in a group they seem more as liabilities
than huge assets to a group. All other classes except warriors do
stuff from a range so they play it a lot more safe than assassins, and with
your typical assassin they go in and die whilst not providing anything for
the group.

Even if you did take one they don't really have a role other than damage, and
a few conditions that other classes usually already do.

moriz · May 18, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

when you're caught in an endless battle because you cannot reach those resurrecting ritualists, and you are slowly being overwhelmed as your monks and backline run out of energy, you will want an assassin. when a battle takes 5 minutes to complete because of a monk boss constantly healing and protecting its frontline, you'll want an assassin. when your party is being wiped out by coordinated double dragon spikes from a well-defended backline, you'll want an assassin.

a shadowstepping assassin attacking the backline does more than just do damage and spread conditions. because of the way the mob AI is programmed, mob backline monsters (monks and ritualists, etc) are good at two things: a) supporting the frontline monsters, and b) supporting themselves. what they cannot do is supporting both. by simutaneously attacking both the frontline via warriors and other classes and attacking the backline via assassins, the mob AI goes haywire, and the mob will collapse very, very quickly. no other class can hope to this effectively. either they don't do enough damage quickly enough (rangers and elementalists), or they cannot move fast enough to apply pressure simutaneously (warriors).

instead of blaming the assassins for dying, maybe you should blame yourself for a bad pull. if the mob you're attacking is too close to another mob, a teleporting assassin might be caught off guard as he accidentally aggros the nearby mob. if done right, the assassin can conceivably wipe out the backline before taking a single hit. trust me, i've done it myself when the pug allows me to pull and set up the battle.

in closing, i will say this: the assassin is a complicated class to play, and they bring a lot more to a party than what's indicated on paper. yes, they are not technically needed, just like you don't technically need a warrior, a ranger, an elementalist to be a successful pug. but they can make your life much easier, and battles much easier won.

[FnG] Lazz · May 18, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

But, yes, I think "professionists" will just get worse and worse. Its only becuase people are so ignorant. They don't take classes becuase they don't know what they do or how to use them. In their minds, "a warrior tanks, a monk heals, an ele blows stuff up, a necro does stuff with dead bodies and uses BiP on me!

LMAO thats the quote which prettymuch sums everything up. I play as an Assasin and will retreat when my health gets low. I usually try to go in, deal all the damage, then get out again.

Unfortunately some Assasins are just a bad example. One I played with yesterday was doing a mission (cant remember what its called, it follows the closer to the stars quest) and he was repeatedly not just running into one group, but in some cases, running past one group and starting on the next.

Hopefully someday, someone who is really good with the Assasin build will release a video of an Assasin playing 'the way it was meant to be played' on a tough mission and showing just how good they can be, and that not all assasin players are tanking wannabe's

Moa Bird Cultist · May 18, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but at least eles arent scorned upon any more now that factions is out. (And anyone who doesnt like earth magic now is entitled to their opinion, but it's still wrong

)

Sair · May 18, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

If you've ever played a W/Mo, you know what the hate can be like.

Alias_X · May 18, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

As the game progresses will there be professionists?

Wow. Being politically correct in game ftw??
If an ele doesn't fit in the build my group is doing, I won't take one. Too bad. Unless people are spamming chats saying Don't talk to wammos, or something to that effect, suck it up. Group with your guild and work on a group build that works well with eles.

Sanji · May 18, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sair

If you've ever played a W/Mo, you know what the hate can be like.

Yeah, people think you're an idiot by default. But people still feel they need a Warrior or two in their party.

You don't have it like Assassins. Most people think you're an idiot AND they don't want you in their party at all.

Ure Maker · May 19, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

if u look into guild battles u are likly too c a mesmer usually with a shutdown build

equaly a assasin with the correct stats weapons and skills can take a monk out faster than a mesmer then proceed onto other targets

pve side of things

mesmers to shutdown the ritualists who heal and revive then attack the monks

just like assasins my assasin can take out a ritualist then monk then ele with no problem then i attack the warrior

in all most people who say a proffesion is crap are either

1)new to the game and dont understand
2)nvr actually played that proffesion

my ritualist can go support healer with ritualist spells in which some are btr than monk skills

assasin can go in and out of enemy groups take out the ritualist take out there chance of a win
when i started gw prophecies last year my first char was a ranger and i found it a tad difficult to get a group, now i c at least 1 ranger in every team

and for assasin not bein allowed into groups it isnt caus there assasins its caus there r so many of them, i know i got turned down caus the team took 2 assasins already

afkkiller · May 19, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

when you're caught in an endless battle because you cannot reach those resurrecting ritualists, and you are slowly being overwhelmed as your monks and backline run out of energy, you will want an assassin. when a battle takes 5 minutes to complete because of a monk boss constantly healing and protecting its frontline, you'll want an assassin. when your party is being wiped out by coordinated double dragon spikes from a well-defended backline, you'll want an assassin.

a shadowstepping assassin attacking the backline does more than just do damage and spread conditions. because of the way the mob AI is programmed, mob backline monsters (monks and ritualists, etc) are good at two things: a) supporting the frontline monsters, and b) supporting themselves. what they cannot do is supporting both. by simutaneously attacking both the frontline via warriors and other classes and attacking the backline via assassins, the mob AI goes haywire, and the mob will collapse very, very quickly. no other class can hope to this effectively. either they don't do enough damage quickly enough (rangers and elementalists), or they cannot move fast enough to apply pressure simutaneously (warriors).

instead of blaming the assassins for dying, maybe you should blame yourself for a bad pull. if the mob you're attacking is too close to another mob, a teleporting assassin might be caught off guard as he accidentally aggros the nearby mob. if done right, the assassin can conceivably wipe out the backline before taking a single hit. trust me, i've done it myself when the pug allows me to pull and set up the battle.

in closing, i will say this: the assassin is a complicated class to play, and they bring a lot more to a party than what's indicated on paper. yes, they are not technically needed, just like you don't technically need a warrior, a ranger, an elementalist to be a successful pug. but they can make your life much easier, and battles much easier won.

Ill take interrupting rangers killing monks anyday for PvE simply because
they can kill backline AND do other things well.

derrtyboy69 · May 19, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I tihnk alot of the assassin hating stems from the vizunah square mission. People often get teamed with a newb assassin that thinks he is a tank and loses the mission for the veteran prophecies player, and from then on that player hates assassins.